[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by ALG

military presence in over 40 countries.

These 40 countries were idealists or are idealists and let themselves be used.

Originally Posted by ALG

That entire world police thing.

That irks the world yes. I pity the people of Iraq and Vietnam who suffer even today.

Originally Posted by ALG

The arrogance of Americans.

That is sad actually, there are even members in this forum who stand as an example. But not all Americans are arrogant, I have friends who have seen the world and are aware of it and normally they'd surprise people that they are Americans. It is the Americans who make opinions about the world sitting in America who make all of them look bad.

Originally Posted by ALG

The doublr standards ( we have loads of nukes but no one else can have them). Americans allways trying to make themselves look like heroes.

There are at least 8 countries which are officially nuclear powers. Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Britain, France, Israel and North Korea. Of this Russia, China, Britain, France and India have hydrogen bombs - the deadliest and most destructive of nuclear weapons.

Countries which expect to be safe in today's world without being a nuclear power are naive, they end up like Iraq or Vietnam and we didn't. Thanks to the big sticks called nuclear bombs and ICBMs.

The Moral Question of the Nuclear Bomb

[Lt. Kettch]

Mmm, Switzerland. Bloody dangerous place, these days.

[SlabumniLoviets]

Any explanation or you just hate the Swiss?

[Lt. Kettch]

Hah I love 'em. Fantastic foreign policy.

Actually be neutral. Switzerland has no nuclear weapons (to my knowledge), no standing army... nothing except a very strong economy and some lovely scenery. Fantastic place.

[SlabumniLoviets]

Every Swiss citizen is a trained soldier. They inspired a lot of other countries like Finland, Thailand, China and North Korea.

And yes, they are neutral, thats the best about it. They survived Hitler but facing problems from Bush as they want to inspect Swiss banks. Sometimes makes you think who is worse....

Switzerland has the political advantage of being the only open democracy in the world rather than being a republic. French, Danish and Dutch models of representative democracies get the next place in terms of stability so a strong economy is assured.

[Lt. Kettch]

Oh, I know that. They still don't have a standing army, it's more a highly-trained militia.

I really don't think anyone would take you seriously if you started claiming Bush is as bad as Hitler, economic interference and conflicts over oil are hardly on the same level as global war and genocide. I won't deny that Hitler did more for his country though.

[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

Oh, I know that. They still don't have a standing army, it's more a highly-trained militia.

With a neutral political stance and assured protection from all five UNSC members they don't really need to waste too much on military. They have backing of both communist and democratic governments to keep a neutral stance. Their militia is still better trained, at least on the combat level than most reserves of democratic countries.

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

I really don't think anyone would take you seriously if you started claiming Bush is as bad as Hitler, economic interference and conflicts over oil are hardly on the same level as global war and genocide. I won't deny that Hitler did more for his country though.

There is a difference in what you think and the rest of the world think. If you have a source of news outside of US-UK you might see my point has stance in a majority of the world. And second there are some striking resemblance to George Bush's stance and what Nazis did.

1. Blitzkreig (Germany) - Shock and Awe (USA)
2. Judeo Bolshevism conspiracy theory - Axis of Evil conspiracy theory
3. Gestapo - Department of Homeland Security and CIA
4. Principles of universal Aryan Supremacy - Principle of universal American system of democracy
5. Common belief that militarism is a sign of power
6. Volksgemeinschaft - Patriot Act
7. Common hate and paranoia for communists
8. Common influence of national policies by religion
9. Anti semitism - Anti Islamism

I don't really support all of Hitler's ideologies but the assuming 6 million people killed by taking pre and post war population counts is illogical. It would be stupid to assume the 100000 Jews who took shelter in Shanghai to be victims of holocaust. Same goes for all other Jewish refugees.

And Hitler is neither the only one nor the first one to do an act of this magnitude - the Catholic church and Islamists have a bloody history of the most violent genocides which will make Nazis look like Gandhi.

And thirdly George Bush hasn't got as much as options Hitler had, if he exercises anti-communist stance against China and Russia by warfare - his homeland would end up a large parking lot and genetically modified X-Men. And it would have taken only a few hours to formulate a public press release about how we had to prevent the world from a genocide of 2 billion people by Bush and the casualties of the war as a sympathy generator - rest would have been history. This is when we thank the existence of nuclear weapons and us having it for sufficient national security.

[Lt. Kettch]

With a neutral political stance and assured protection from all five UNSC members they don't really need to waste too much on military. They have backing of both communist and democratic governments to keep a neutral stance. Their militia is still better trained, at least on the combat level than most reserves of democratic countries.

So you'd say they're still pretty safe even without nuclear weaponry?

I'm not gonna bother replying to the rest of that, I'm afraid. I appreciate the effort you went to, but I don't really get anything out of these debates.

[ALG]

I am worried about American nukes. why do you need 12k nukes? besides you are the only people to ever have used nukes.

[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

So you'd say they're still pretty safe even without nuclear weaponry?

First Swiss stance has been neutral since instation of democracy in the 1600s after the Swiss Federation was formed. Much of what the world has for peace like Red Cross, Reporters Sans Frontiers, Geneva Conventions were born in Switzerland. Secondly Switzerland has the largest physics research center in the world. They invented WWW and much of modern internet, it would be silly to assume they can't make a nuke on demand.

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

I'm not gonna bother replying to the rest of that, I'm afraid. I appreciate the effort you went to, but I don't really get anything out of these debates.

Neither do I.

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

besides you are the only people to ever have used nukes.

...and chemical weapons and biological agents. They are the first and only ones to use things which will make other countries look in disgust but they find it quite touchy when other countries possess them.

[Lt. Kettch]

Originally Posted by ALG

I am worried about american nukes. why do you nees 12k nukes? besides you are the only people to ever have used nukes.

What, me personally? I'm English, actually, and I certainly don't have a Trident sitting in my back garden.

Secondly Switzerland has the largest physics research center in the world. They invented WWW and much of modern internet, it would be silly to assume they can't make a nuke on demand.

It would also be silly to think that the scientists in question would comply to such a demand. There tends to be a reason why someone chooses to work at CERN rather than for a government. The organisation isn't under Swiss jurisdiction, or anyone's for that matter, they answer to themselves. It's a particle physics laboratory, not a weapons plant.

...and chemical weapons and biological agents. They are the first and only ones to use things which will make other countries look in disgust but they find it quite touchy when other countries possess them.

Hold on, I didn't post that. Anyway, what about mustard gas in the First World War?

[squished_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Spammy

A prime example of patriotism would be the crouds that can be found in stadiums like Wembly, jumping up and down chanting about their home country during the game.

That's the problem, you all become so fanatical and obsessed with your country, you treat the entire thing like a game. I just find it weird. It's a plot of land you live on with a millions of others and you have some corrupt govement at it's head; it's not something to encourage really..

[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

It would also be silly to think that the scientists in question would comply to such a demand. There tends to be a reason why someone chooses to work at CERN rather than for a government. The organisation isn't under Swiss jurisdiction, or anyone's for that matter, they answer to themselves. It's a particle physics laboratory, not a weapons plant.

During war strategic locations are first targets. And the scientists in any country are aware of this fact. CERN has the capability yes, but unless a war happens against Switzerland no one knows....and I don't expect a war with Switzerland anytime soon...

And there is often overlap between scientific research centers and WMD developments. Like Plum Island, an agro-research center which developed highly infectious and resistant FMDV which effectively reduced the cattle population of Kazakhstan. It was also to be used on the rest of Soviet but didn't go well.

[Lt. Kettch]

Good, I'll let them know.

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by Lt. Kettch

Hah I love 'em. Fantastic foreign policy.

Actually be neutral. Switzerland has no nuclear weapons (to my knowledge), no standing army... nothing except a very strong economy and some lovely scenery. Fantastic place.

and high gun crime. They have conscription there and everyone is given a gun at the end of their term. thus there are alot of gun related murders (if your an officer you get a machine gun! YES)