[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by Zachary Gibbons

Observation: On my map it's the westernmost extremity. Given that the world is a globe, one can draw an arbitrary east-west line on any given section.

On my map USA is to the east. If someone were to follow Spammy's line of geography and travel west, they'd burn 1.5 times more precious fuel and need to make a stop at London or Paris, unless it is Airbus A340 or Boeing 777 they are flying. So it is normal that I should consider USA as an eastern country taking into mind their cultural and ideological difference from countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Greece or France, more than some Americans would like to accept.

[Lord Domino]

You may find it easier to get your arguments across if you conform to the more globally understood format for the map of the world. Whether you like it or not, it is the most recognized format and you're only going to confuse your points by using a different one. It'd be rather like talking in Chinese out of a stubborn refusal to accept that this site is English.

[happy_bumblebee]

In Me, America is to the west, no matter how much you protest....

it all starts at Greenwich, London,

England are responsible for whats west and whats east, so take it up with them....

[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by happy_bumblebee

In Me, America is to the west, no matter how much you protest....

Lets think of the concept of west from a more relevant point of this topic itself, which I am using. Lets use Spammy's ideas on anti-Americanism as anti-west into conclusion and use logic to extrapolate his points -

America = West (Point 1)
France, Belgium, Greece, Italy, Germany, Scotland, Ireland = West (Point 2)

>> Using Spammy's definition

anti- America = anti- west (Point 3)

>> We have using Point 2

anti - west = anti - (France, Belgium, Greece, Italy, Germany, Scotland, Ireland)

>> From points 1, 2 and 3 coupled with Spammy's and a few others' viewpoint it can be logically concluded that if someone dislikes America they dislike France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and all other progressive West European countries. That would also imply that a Frenchman who find American stupid and dislikes them would be a traitor since a/c Spammy anti-American = anti-west and Point 2 states West = France ++


Quips apart if you were to go anywhere in the world of at least 3.1 billion people would agree that the concept of western civilisation brings up Europe to their mind, with the center point being Greece while US is generally thought of as the isolated land much like Australia. You cannot have a country which as as much people as one our or big cities to decide world view.

Culturally and ideologically the idea of a homogeneous west which Spammy mentions, it at best an old fashioned one and at worst a racial one. If being anti-American counts as anti west I could make a great deal that being against me is being racist against the human race, any sane person knows there is no logical line to such a conclusion.

In the current world and reality there is no ideological basis for "Western world" just as there is no homogeneous "East Asia". An humanist and open minded person who has traveled countries in both east and west of the globe ought to know better than armchair theorists who draw quick hasty generalisations and accuse others of doing so when the same method is used on them. The concept of 'western countries' in today's world is at best a geographical one and if the International Date Line is used instead of Greenwich both colonial ideas of east and west get reversed.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by I'm Me

for telling you are not racist, you have just proved it you are.

How did I come across as a racist in that post?

Originally Posted by I'm Me

Right from the cover to the stories you will see the difference.

The news will report what people will read and find interesting. The news isn't just about geo-political as you seem to think it should.

Originally Posted by I'm Me

"The term "Western world" does not have a strict international definition, governments do not use the term in legislation of international treaties and instead rely on other definitions."

Of course there is no defined definition, but there is a common connotation. Oh, and this statement contradicts your statement below.\/

Originally Posted by I'm Me

If everyone were to use their own narrow terms then USA is in the east, not west.

.

Originally Posted by I'm Me

On my map USA is to the east. If someone were to follow Spammy's line of geography and travel west, they'd burn 1.5 times more precious fuel and need to make a stop at London or Paris

Depending on where you're at, I'd be more willing to say the plane would fly an Arctic course to the U.S.

Originally Posted by I'm Me

Lets think of the concept of west from a more relevant point of this topic itself, which I am using. Lets use Spammy's ideas on anti-Americanism as anti-west into conclusion and use logic to extrapolate his points -

>> From points 1, 2 and 3 coupled with Spammy's and a few others' viewpoint it can be logically concluded that if someone dislikes America they dislike France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and all other progressive West European countries. That would also imply that a Frenchman who find American stupid and dislikes them would be a traitor since a/c Spammy anti-American = anti-west and Point 2 states West = France ++

Another waste of a post by you in which you drew faulty conclusions about my opinions.

Originally Posted by I'm Me

You cannot have a country which as as much people as one our or big cities to decide world view.

Which city of yours has 300 million people again?

[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by Spammy

How did I come across as a racist in that post?

You made it clear that you are more concerned about someone burning American flag rather than America killing their near and dear ones.

Originally Posted by Spammy

The news will report what people will read and find interesting. The news isn't just about geo-political as you seem to think it should.

Back to square one. Americans are interested in Micheal Moore's pets and Elvis Priestley's dog eating his hat rather than Lebanon War or Global Warming.

Originally Posted by Spammy

Depending on where you're at, I'd be more willing to say the plane would fly an Arctic course to the U.S.

Using vectors and longitude, it can be shown that the plane's would follow an eastward route rather than west.

Originally Posted by Spammy

Another waste of a post by you in which you drew faulty conclusions about my opinions.

Are you trying to bluff your way out from the fact that you made a claim that I hate the west a few months back? I have a elephant's memory for details, big or small.

Originally Posted by Spammy

Which city of yours has 300 million people again?

I was of the belief that it is England, not USA which happy_bumblebee claimed was responsible for concept of east and west. Apparently I am right which you will realise if you take care to read post #343 of this topic. Have you been mistaking England as a US state? I do remember someone claiming Stephen Hawkins is an American.

For US the west is to its east and east to its west, why such a fuss about directions?

[BLONDEH]

Originally Posted by I'm Me

The definition of sedition like morality, varys according to the country. In France for example a lot more liberty can be exercised when expressing dissent without fear of assassination or prosecution. UK is not far behind. Even developing countries like Malaysia or India have a lot of freedom in this regard. It is US which lags behind in freedom and yet feels like it is a duty to push their ideals down other's throats.

Talking of seditious speech, if you try preaching Christianity, religion or anything which creates division of identities in our country, you face persecution and even life imprisonment. This is not a human rights voilation but protection of humanity by preventing the society from getting swayed by blind faith and getting divided. I know....your hatist Christian missionaries have been crying foul for this inability to poison our society. We don't allow sedition either, is that a bad thing? .

NOOOOOOOOO....the seditious speech i was refering to was that you can not rally or talk about violently overthrowing our government...

so that whole two paragraphs of you typing...

was shit to put it nicely

Originally Posted by I'm Me

I know of a friend's American grandfather who met with an accident from the 21st floor of a building in Dublin because he revealed classified CIA assassination attempt records on two democratic natitons. I have a copy of it and I can post it if you can be sure you won't face problems for it. By the way I am lucky I am not in America.......who knows?

haha..if your going to leak classified CIA information to the public,then you deserve what you get. that's like saying for me...if i told where my unit was in iraq, what their plans were and were they were going to be at what time to the enemy that i would not get in trouble for their deaths...like hell.

I know of CIA Death Squads whose main job is to try to destabilise un-American governments and assassinate leaders who stand in the way of American interests. Like the way they destabilised democratic republic in Iraq to put Saddam to power and then backed him up to gas Iranians to break the Iranian's morale. I have had the honour to kill 4 similar operative spies in my country in firing squads after they were convicted in proper trials.

haha..i would like your evidence of these "CIA Death Squads" we backed up putting saddam in power so that we didn't have to put our own troops in there...get over it. he turned out to be quite the asshole, so yeah...am i said he is dead...no. do i think he deserved it..no..but that's beside the point. You have had the honour to kill four similary operative spies in your own country?? wow...that's something to be proud of...because i know that if i shot four people...i'd feel pretty good about it...

except not.

I know of an Indian student who got arrested for posting a hate message against Bush in an online forum which Bush got scared of.

he was thrown in jail for THREATENING TO KILL OUR LEADER. hellllo??? that's a federal crime. he should have been arrested...you don't say things like that about someone that important. hell..you shouldn't say you plan on killing anyone. period.

I know of 10 million Koreans who were killed by US backed corrupt South Korean forces because these people decided in favour of a socialist republic.

umm..karma KILLS doesnt it. we train iraqi's every day only to have them come back and try to kill us. welcome to a corrupt world. this holds no weight.

I know of independant journalists who were killed or thrown in Guantanamo for uncovering US abuses in Iraq.

they were the enemy journalists...if they are stupid enough to want to report on the news against the US soldiers then fine...if they want to sit there and EXAGERATE what we have done...

well..what's done is done...they are gone...enough said.

I know of independant news channel Al Jazeera which had its offices bombed right after the Abu Ghareed incident was uncovered by them. That happened by smart bombs despite USAF being given exact co-ordinates of their location.

they report for terrorist groups..where the fuck to you live. Al Jazeera is known for displaying terrorists in action, anti american tv and all the rest...to say they are independent news and have done nothing wrong is such a crock of bull shit. they weren't actually bombed, bush just thought of doing it...so yeah...get the story straight.

Do you really think a country which does all these is really free? How many die and how many go missing for national security? Why does Guantanamo bay exist so that prisoners are tortured and imprisoned their without trials? Have you ever read the clauses Patriot Act and the agenda of Department of Homeland Security?

america is free...we are free to believe what we want, have whatever kind of job we want, go to college and create a better life for ourselves...that's more than MANY countries on the globe can say. i have read the clauses of both of those things...and the patriot act..if this is where you are going with it helps law enforcement to keep an eye on suspicious people they believe could be terrorists or may be linked to one. THEY DO NOT PHONE TAP, OR INVESTIGATE RANDOM PEOPLE...they have a purpose for every one they look at. and homeland security is something we need after seeing what another country could do to us in the name of hatred. there is nothing wrong with that department.

no, americans are not allowed to go out and prance around and do WHATEVER they like. HOWEVER they are allowed to do whatever they would like AS LONG as it does not infringe on another persons rights. hell..that is a lot better than any other country i know of.

Next time before you accuse someone ot knowing about your country, try to do a bit of rational thinking instead of hitting on others.

you don't know our country. you know what our country has done and criticize every little piece of it..fine.

but america is a better country than any other in the world, and yes...i would die for my country and everything it stands for in a minute, because i believe in the idea of what this country was founded on. i feel that way because of what america offers EVERYONE, not just men, those under a certain age, or those in a certain social class.

[SlabumniLoviets]

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

haha..if your going to leak classified CIA information to the public,then you deserve what you get.

If you reveal proofs of human rights violations you don't deserve cruel death. We thank our own spies for revealing the US motives to launch a nuclear attack on our country, shows the world who is offensive and who is defensive.

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

haha..i would like your evidence of these "CIA Death Squads" we backed up putting saddam in power so that we didn't have to put our own troops in there...get over it.

Here you go for your proof - http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

You have had the honour to kill four similary operative spies in your own country?? wow...that's something to be proud of...because i know that if i shot four people...i'd feel pretty good about it...

except not.

I confess I didn't feel too good about the first one but the first time tends to be a difficult change. After learning what these people could do, I do not feel guilty now in fact I like the experience as killing one of them saves the life of many innocents.

You wouldn't feel good about killing spies but you wouldn't mind killing innocent unarmed civilians?

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

he was thrown in jail for THREATENING TO KILL OUR LEADER. hellllo??? that's a federal crime. he should have been arrested...you don't say things like that about someone that important. hell..you shouldn't say you plan on killing anyone. period.

Get over it, he wasn't planning on killing anyone he just made a comment on a social site. Yeah, I say , Kill Bush and hang in in front of the ICJ, Hague.. Now go and see if you can touch a single hair of mine about it.

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

umm..karma KILLS doesnt it. we train iraqi's every day only to have them come back and try to kill us. welcome to a corrupt world. this holds no weight.

Oh really? How many Iraqis trained by US hit back US soldiers.?

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

they were the enemy journalists...if they are stupid enough to want to report on the news against the US soldiers then fine...if they want to sit there and EXAGERATE what we have done...

well..what's done is done...they are gone...enough said.

They were independent journalists. They revealed the crime of US forces against Iraqi people, they showed the world that US isn't a saint like the PR guys of your armed forces like to show. It is apparent you have been throughly brainwashed by one of them which is why you have closed your eyes to facts, it makes you as bad as the religious fanatics.

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

they report for terrorist groups..where the fuck to you live. Al Jazeera is known for displaying terrorists in action, anti american tv and all the rest...to say they are independent news and have done nothing wrong is such a crock of bull shit. they weren't actually bombed, bush just thought of doing it...so yeah...get the story straight.

They still follow the International Code of Journalism. You cannot blow up news channels for reporting on terrorist groups as reporters. It is the media and news organisations which can make or break a nation, they are the voice of the people.

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

.that is a lot better than any other country i know of.

Have you ever been to France, Denmark or Belgium?

Originally Posted by BLONDEH

but america is a better country than any other in the world, and yes...i would die for my country and everything it stands for in a minute, because i believe in the idea of what this country was founded on. i feel that way because of what america offers EVERYONE, not just men, those under a certain age, or those in a certain social class.

Die if you want, I am sure your life is worth nothing to your country. I wouldn't die but live for mine because you can't do much for your country when you are dead. Unless you believe in the idiotic concepts of afterlife, death is nothing glorious.

[Zachary Gibbons]

Originally Posted by I'm Me

I was of the belief that it is England, not USA which happy_bumblebee claimed was responsible for concept of east and west.

Clarification: It was England which defined the arbitrary zero line for longitude, the Greenwich Meridian, which is currently used "internationally".

[t(*.*)t]

Clearly Tupac and Biggie were responsible for East and West (doubt many people will get this joke)

[Spammy]

^You'd have to know rap fo that one ^

Originally Posted by I'm Me

You made it clear that you are more concerned about someone burning American flag rather than America killing their near and dear ones.

No, maybe you didn't understand my point. Look at the common people in some countries burning our flag and chanting death to America, now I don't recall seeing that happen here.

Originally Posted by I'm Me

Back to square one. Americans are interested in Micheal Moore's pets and Elvis Priestley's dog eating his hat rather than Lebanon War or Global Warming.

Look, thew news isn't just about geo-political stuff as you think it should. When I watch the news, I don't wanna just see a bunch of political crap, I want to see variety.

[BLONDEH]

we don't chose what the media gives us....

instead we have to look into the facts that they give us in order to find the spin.

welcome to most of the media being libral.

[t(*.*)t]

Good thing papa bear O'Reilly has the no spin zone. God bless that man, and most of the media is liberal? The media is bias both ways, the liberal bias is just more apparent so everyone says that without understanding why/what it means lol

[Spammy]

Ya, just look at Fox. That's the most neo-conservative media out there.

[BLONDEH]

lol..i love o'reilly...some of the things he believes are a little over the top...but i like him none the less.

and no, most of the media is more libral than not...other than the military published papers or documents and maybe a handful of newspapers...i doubt you'll see anything other than libral kinds of spins.